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What's in a name? A strange way to put it- It sounds like and is treated like gout, with SUA levels like yours.
Maybe there is more data on your condition -like MRI or simiilar showing independent bone damage? …
The good thing is you're not overweight and manage on the meds very well -whatever your Doc likes to call it!
It would becomon enough to get knee cartilage problems from jogging. It happened to me in my 40's and I had to give it up. This was before gout kicked in by many years ,too!
I must admit that walking is easier and the ability to do this for long distances is something to hang on to.
Yes, jogging is good for stretching the heart and I really enjoyed it- but other pursuits are less fraught with potential damage, over time.
It may seem a long way round to the issue, but vitamin D is produced from chlorestrol in the skin by sunlight. Build up of this fatty compound , esp. if underutilised, can restrict arteries and thus increase blood pressure- a known risk for gout!
Vit D is important for health and many are reportedly quite low in it, in the northern latitudes
I always feel better after some sun- but am far from a sun worshipper, having a sensitivity to it.
It seems a good idea if this system of treatment is truly capable of self regulation.
Due to lack of proper monitoring of drug therapies in not just gout- this is a big plus !
Hi Nick- You don't give your age but you know the links- If you want to use diet to stay clear of gout you know both non veg purines and beer are No-Nos and the local beer sounds like a great compromise for the occasional misdemeanor !! 😉
The UA meter will help in this, but bear in mind that short term fluctuations are normal and you will need a lot of testing to tie in single issue diet effects. You may get fed up with stabbing your digits and the test strips are not cheap -and also expire fairly quickly!
The' Kernel' meter is OK- & supply abroad- but currently are due to replace mine, due to the on board clock being slightly fast.
You know that your lack of exercise will affect your future health, inc. gout attack levels.
Let us know results of the beer trial – but it will take some weeks/ months to show!
*** Either way keep water intake high from now on.
Hi ! I have been both a long term Gout and Migraine sufferer and the have never co- existed.
Only recently though , I got a few migraine niggles while trying a BP med called Clonidine -which relaxes blood vessels and would possibly cause this mild return after 20 years.
However… !!! – I have noticed in the past, with a proper gout attack, the tendency for headaches to persist for some days before the attack kicked in – and for a number of times I was caught out , only remembering too late , that this could happen.
This could be a link to your exp. but I don't think it's a UA thing primarily- maybe just a body sensitization by the pain mechanism?
Migraines are not normal headaches, as you know- if you take treatment for them it will probably restrict vascular blood flow which may make an imminent gout attack more likely to kick in. (My opinion- non medical) .
Either way, one is a relatively short term episode and the other [Gout] a long term auto-immune issue.
utube- You should be able to get a picture of the screen with Grabzilla10 whatever the format.
It can save as a JPG file (default is bmp) and then use Irfanview to shrink down the file size on the save options. Both these are free utilities btw.
Post them using the file upload here- to the right of the Omega sign above your reply post screen box.
Wow! Mr Pam..you have got a bucket full here.
What gout variant has been disgnosed?1.On the SUA- bear with it, 5 days is not long , Your Doc is on the case with his approach which is a nice change from usual in gout.When is your next blood test?
2 If you value your health give up smoking. [Full stop- I'm an ex cigar man]
3. Stop this too, at least till you get 1 & 4 right- and then moderate alcohol intake substantially, too.
4 Increase activity daily and get a program of regular walking and swimming at least.
5. Follow the above
with plenty of good quality water intake- till it's second nature.Your body needs your kidneys , liver and lungs to detox – so don't rely on the meds to do the work you should be doing.
It's the old issue of cost benefit!
Even if not paying for anything, the buyer is still a concept that works well. Some free papers are driven solely by advert streams. The web is a good example ,where Google is now worth billions for driving a clever concept.
Some sites are free, others subscribed [or ask for contributions] and some can charge via services etc.
Pay per hit is a common way of generating revenue online and the question is always what are you getting, or giving. Without these web sites there would be nothing- so we're back to what is in the transaction and who benefits- as always the 'buyer' must beware and posting may help others in lots of different ways.
So long as discussions are kept open and personal recommendations tolerated, I don't have a problem, personally speaking.
Maybe- I'm getting old, or is it noblesse oblige?
Here we go- this may help.. [or will it? 🙂 ]
Matt & shiny, too!
The white spot is showing a brownish cast in the neon lighting -but it's not as white as the print on the bag.
* These beans vary slightly in size 8 to 9 mm long.
[ie: Typically under 1cm. long]
Note humorous slant on sales blurb!
![Black Turtle bean [UK]](/wp-content/uploads/BT Bean.jpg)
No, Certainly don't mix- you are in the fine position to do some test runs- as very few users seem to have access to both types of bean.
Do a run on both and see how they compare- this will be very helpful on the comparison between the two beans.
This may take some time, depending on your attack status…
I reckon that it's 95% certain that the Thai bean are Black Turtle beans [ or Common, P. Vulgaris] by looking at the pics above.
They may be less effective than Soy, but easier to get.
Maybe Soy type are limited in the West as they are commonly used for oil or feed production- and thus 'by- products' , rather than food sources.
This may have issues like pollution and pesticide use associated, but in the irregular amounts used and lack of reporting, this is something for the notebook.
I think that if the Common Black Turtle bean does the trick , then that is fine to use.
If you need to experiment more, then use the Soy version with caution -with regard to supplier.
Nokka- I reckon you finessed your diet and travel dang well!
Stick with the tester if you can , it takes time to get confident of results- and a movement of 1 point give or take during the day is quite plausible.
You're a guy who like paddling his own canoe- so keep that expensive Tester string in your bow twanging ! I'm not suggesting you test between beers- but wouldn't put it past you…
Interesting you say that about childbirth GG! I've read both that Gout's worse than both that and a heart attack -and if I say this to people they look pretty doubtful about the idea.
I've only had gout, but most here will attest to the fact fact that it IS totally unbearable in full spate. Medics generally just don't GET this , do they?
On the exercise front I reckon , like most rheumy illnesses, regular movement is best if causing no pain ( well, twinges are bearable). seizing up is not a good idea- and circulation must be maintained to stop further attacks, come what may, in the Gouty.
In my experience getting moving again in, or after an attack, is a very positive thing and lifts the spirits, whatever the pain. Of course, only little by little is gained.
Heavy exercise is a No No as the risk of strain or injury is high. Gout is its own delimiter on activity –
If you do more- you just haven't suffered enough 😉
Have you tried BBBroth, Mo? It seems to work for many, esp. in the early stages to stop a flare becoming an attack. [See major post this site]
Hi Law- I'm going to be boring and say if you take a med (which will have side effects, even if unseen) and drink alcohol overmuch (which is a poison to the body, though I like a drop too), then you can't expect to get away with it, this early on anyway!
Thanks for the graph, very instructive- shows that you had almost as low levels of SUA before you started treatment.
I can't quite tally the lower red line with your Gout pain numbers though…
My main comment would be ( a personal view) that it takes many years for gout to develop – it's not going to give up easily ,especially if you don't work with the treatment and add other defensive measure in too!
Bear with it a bit longer- and please do keep the charts flowing!
Note also , that the absolute level of SUA is not a direct indication of the likelihood of an attack (or not)- as it's the urate in the joint areas that predispose to these.
Well to stay on topic- I must reiterate that an alkaline diet will help from my recent attempts, and allied to that is the idea that water 'intake' actually reduces water 'retention' which your meds not be strong enough, due to gout reactions to diuretics. Your body stops saving it!
As your story is ongoing -why not start your own thread as case studies, however limited , are a great help to others and put experiences into perspective. A 10 reading is high enough to watch progress with interest!
Bearing in mind this is a public forum- but general experiences are more useful than personal details as the amount of real day to day research on gout seems limited- hence a lot of worried sufferers.
Hey- you must keep posting- Your moniker looks like Goutpal so you will get a lot of readers 😉
On the sitting at PC- this won't help gout.
Keep more mobile- and maybe try those new foot massagers to help circulation?
Walk round the block before retiring, too! If you smoke tobacco- desist!
Sounds like a rough time alright. The speed you have become aware of Gout will mean a quick take uip on ways and means to contol it.
You're already on the first stage with the meds -and that is most important to stick with.
A reading of 10 and the fast onset sounds like you may have a backlog of UA to clear- but that is conjecture without a scan ,you're unlikely to get.
You have had good management by your Dr so far but you will know from reading here that you may have a few bad periods over the next few months while SUA comes down to <6.
Steady up the weight loss a bit- untill you have got over the bringing down of SUA level. You may be doing 'too much at once' , otherwise.
Do get a diet sorted and on the right one, weight should lower more easily- but it will take some weeks / months to get it right.
Concentrate on lowish meat/fish (especially prawns etc) protein for a bit and fill up on fruit and veg and soured milk products.
It will help to get on an alkaline diet in my view. There's a lot to read up…
Don't forget plenty of water in small amounts through the day- probably double what you normally do. I struggle myself a lot on this , too.
I reckon you have a good positive approach , anyway. Good luck!
Utube- If you can't get scans to show -can you put up a recent pic?
If you have arthritis then a lower SUA may well help, with or without Gout. No reason why you can't have both plus slow injury recovery.
I'm trying to get over a cracked bone in foot (I think) 4 weeks, and it is very like gout in catching the odd bang and hurting. To plaster it would cause problems. I may have to get Xray yet.
It's fair to say that if gout was lurking seriously right now, it would have kicked in.
I'm still struggling with BP meds side effects, too.
Your med advice seems good & in depth and they can surely advise best- otherwise 'the middle way'?
Ease off AlloP to a low dose, watch diet/ drink and don't over stress yourself, or joints.
Monitor your SUA to not get near the 6+ on average, at least.
Nate- I think the searching out of old injury sites, not just gouts, is normal in the UA reduction process.
I've made some progress myself without UA meds as such, [just half dose Lasix+ Cozaar to avoid Thiazides] and frequently found twinges where gout has never happened , but injury certainly has.
At the same time twinges have occurred at old gout sites – or pain felt at pressure points in ankle [old site] etc.- which go away if taken as noted and eased off. One just has to appreciate the increased awareness Gout pain trains into you and accept that you will have to live round the issue using this knowledge.
I think your idea of a blog is a good one -to raise awareness as to how gout can hit young and be managed well ,too. As you're so active it will be a benchmark case.
I think that with the progress you've already made ,the knock on attacks will be much reduced in time.
[No guarantees, though
]The whole problem of gout study is that researchers watch medium to long term 'cause and effect ' and Gouties deal ing with the day to day reactions of their bodies to SUA levels and their response to this, with many complex personal variables.
Three groups referenced on here – New age nutters (seemingly?) , puzzled 'middle men' crunching meds and aloof researchers trying to make a name/living out of universal pain.
Is there a common language?
I meant to add for Zip, that the skin is acidic to fight off infections. There's apparantly a surprising amount of bacteria floating about, that we resist daily.
This may be a reason why the body doesn't 'normally' mind high acidic levels in the blood as well, but in Gouts case this is a 'blessing too far' !
I suspect that diet affects the Ph level in joint fluid, from my recent experiences where my SUA went up to 7.5 after being much lower in a stricter diet phase , with no hint of a gout flare/attack.
Blood and saliva Ph may well stay pretty constant, but urine values go all over the place during the day, for sure.
Interesting to see actual values in joints here [& surprisingly alkaline!] – I suppose the reason why it changes is sinovial fluid doesn't get directly regulated by blood flow through the liver.
White blood cells have a certain delay in action as noticed on a first infection- and the need for antibiotics as a standby cure. [This would explain time delay in gout kicking in]
Many times, it's the body doing the work – but who can tell once the drug has been started?
This is one reason why staying off meds helps find out what's really going on inside- but hard to do without a lab on standby and medics gagging for the results! Some chance.
@ VG What do you make of this?
Yes, this is my point. Both protein and veg don't have to push [longterm] overall levels of UA up but the surge in day to day use can give immune system chance to kick in, and then the focus goes on the bad joint.
A non linear reaction- but researchers are trained to think linearly!
Think about the relatively low level of gout in the often high SUA general population -and the relative ease that gout kicks in around 7mg/dl in confirmed cases.
A hair trigger effect almost buried in mega data…!
It's just a matter of timing!
I get the strong feeling Zip- that though it would be great to be otherwise, the process of urate build up is relentlessly one way through life.The genetic weakness in gouties seems to override a lot of counter efforts to the better.
Don't forget it's only in established gouties that moderately high UA causes the problem- otherwise it has been stated to be quite useful to have higher levels of the wretched stuff!
A recent poster mentioned staying away from infection sources if on AlloP- due , I suppose to the reduced efficiency of the immune system brought on by UA lowering.
On the diet issue again- I feel the main plus of alkalizing by diet is to get the median acid level down so that ' blips' due to indiscretions with food/drink don't clip over the line TOO LONG and trigger a flare, or worse. It would be easier to show on a graph, but time spent in the danger zone has to be reduced. I think the immune system needs a certain time on triggers to get ramped up , basically.
I've had some sudden vicious stabs in toe joints at odd occasions at night but so far, my policy on diet has held good.
Though it would be nice to have ideal alkaline water leaving us, later in the day particularly, showing how balanced we are -for anyone trying to lose urate, ph will never go much over 7 ish from what I've seen and frequently extremely acid @ 5.5 !
The cruciferous vegs have a bad name- a shame, as Broccolli is called a wonder food for its vitamin content. I keep these down in amount & freq -but not banned completely. I would not risk much asparagus, as it has too much a bad reputatiion and not something I normally eat- though i like it, of course!
I think in these cases the actual chemical content of the food is the culprit (naturally enough) and therefore have to be treated as potential triggers, even if they don't add much urate from content. [Research backs this view]
If anywhere vulnerable on SUA level, tighten down the hatches and tread warily. This is why people find it hard to follow a diet regime as one needs to be totally connected to what you take in, good or bad- and how your body is reacting [with time lags to confuse the issue].
This isn't something people today like to be overbothered with, but gouties pay a price for their knowledge ;~0 – unless free meds are available…but even then I hope to avoid using, if possible.
Generally, the food lists are helpful, but not 'gospel' as we all vary – this is why a one shot meds solution is tempting, but can obscure the finer detail of what out bodies need -or can cope with.
This is a good topic as it causes much confusion.
Three main points..
Yes, alkaline diet does help but it has to be well over adjusted to alkaline to have any hope of affecting gout to the good. Diets are now reversed to what our bodies thrive on and it's hard going on modern diets ,which are predominently acid. Proteins in particular.
Beer is a definitely 'no' for gout and research confirms this- it's supposed to have purines in it but I never see the similarity with, say meat or fish ,tbh. I think it is because it's a diuretic and also dehydrates on the body getting rid of alcohol. Double whammy+ plus any purines of course 😉
The other thing mentioned in detail on here is the PRAL rating of the food- this indicates the actual ash resulting from digestion and can be alkaline from foods like lemon juice- highly acidic to take.
My rules of thumb, briefly are-
Good: Water, Fruit ,Veg, Soured milk products,Cottage Cheese, Almonds and nuts, Baked Potatoes ( the big ones)
Bad: Refined Carbs, Alcohol, Shellfish, Red meat,Hard Cheeses, Yeasty foods (see Beer)
If you like a food- it's probably on the Bad List!
Sods law- needless to say- I eat them ,but not too much. Everything in moderation they say-
I would add I've had a bottle of wine , prawns and mushrooms- a busted foot and still escaped an attack this week. I had to bring out the secret weapon, 'Black Bean Broth' from the freezer though, as I had a stab in the toe the other night and took notice!
Diet can definitely help with gout but you have to work on it it and may still need herbal treatment ( I use Goutcure) or medication to get high SUA into the right numbers ie: less than 6mg/dl on average. If you're starting above 8 you have a job on once an attack has hit in your body.
Hope this helps- just my own take.
David- I have a uric acid meter and find it useful finding what my body is doing relative to diet etc.
I don't use it much now things have settled down well. As I don't get attacks or any real pain I am now sensitive to twinges occurring. These can appear in injury sites recently taken [on both feet ]and never a position of gout, which is interesting.
As the UA levels do zoom about somewhat -an average level is more meaningful, and that is exactly what I feel my body is telling me.
With higher levels of UA, or getting pain, this would be more critical- and the meter earning its keep far more, but one never knows with gout when a meter may be needed to clear up a pending problem with diet, dosage of meds & fluid balance etc.
Fluid intake is the first 'upper' to try, then drop off any alcohol -then 'BBB' if niggles persist.This has worked for some months, but knowing where levels are moving is helpful.
If cost is no problem then practice using the meter makes it easier when you need to do it in earnest.
Nate- Your figures are important here as well to you. Little gets back on results of treatment in the public arena and it will help others to hear of direct experiences. Very few report 600mg AlloP.daily!
On the foot warmth- remember my words when you're older and I'm long gone! 🙂
Circulation never gets better with age… so don't lose those snow bootsm ;~)
I would suspect the Allo level change then, firstly.
If you're expecting SUA levels of 4 you must have a fair amount of urate backlog to clear- if on 600 mg till now.
Your next reading will help on this but, whatever is going on, you will be vulnerable till the old deposits are gone- and the snow walking would have been an ideal trigger to catch you out whilst urate was moving around! Keep feet warm always…
